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October 6th, 2005

Our Car Buying Escapades

As Pingers can surmise, we’ve been looking at cars recently. Our 2001 PT Cruiser was doing fine, but we were worried about the mediocre gas mileage and wanted something that felt a little more solid – something like a Toyota Matrix or its twin, the Pontiac Vibe.

We had seen a Pontiac Vibe we were interested in that was out at a dealer called Jacobs Twin – which is a little ways away. The price was fantastic, and the car had everything we demanded: power everything, cruise, automatic, a/c, et al. No moonroof but we could live with that. Thing is, there was a closer dealership, Grossinger, which had the same car with higher mileage for $3k more. Really.

After talking about it the plan was this: we?d go to Grossinger, show them the Jacobs price and car, and ask if they could beat it. If they could, we?d buy there (to avoid driving all the way out to Jacobs). If not, bye. Of course things didn?t go exactly as planned?.

We were taken in by a fellow named Mark. My wife and I brought the printout from on the specific model we wanted. Specific. Mark sent a colleague to go get it. In the meantime he started talking a little about the 06 Vibe (new), which we weren?t interested in because it was out of our budget. We said no. He said okay and left.

We were left alone for about 30 minutes before I asked the guy at the tower (who turned out to be the manager) to page him, because it felt like a damn long time. We already felt abandoned. Some other sales guy walking by found Mark outside, so we went out there.

We really just wanted to get the price out there and see if they could beat it, and Mark was having a hard time ?finding? this car – at one of the (allegedly) largest used car dealers in Illinois. Then his colleague came back and pronounced the car found! But, it had been sold. ?Yeah, that woman came in – she was interested in it,? he said to Mark, ?so she came in and we replaced the bumper. We got the deposit today.? We were saying, ?Seeya? when Mark started to talk price. So we showed him the printout from Jacobs, and pointed to the price.

Mark said a word that rung out through the night air, and is steeped in our brains: ?Impossible.? He said there was no way they could be selling that car for that price, so he surmised it was a bait-and-switch. ?You know,? he said, ?Some dealers – they do that.? He knew all too well, as it turned out. But he kept talking. He first threw out there that Jacobs Twin must do business in an unscrupulous manner, but Grossinger doesn?t. After all, they?re so big! We talked about our highest ceiling, our financing and then he asked the magic question: ?Do you have a trade-in?? We did, so we said yes. Both he and his colleague lit up like Christmas trees. ?Oh! Well, then it?s all okay!?

He asked us what the trade was, and we told him, and he said, ?Oh yeah, there?s no way you?re upside down in that. Tell you what. We have a number of 05 and 06 Vibes. With the 06 we can get you into it at your price. I just want to work with you on this.? We agreed in part because Jacobs was so damn far, so we went inside. He got our insurance and driver?s licenses and said he?d return with a car for us to drive. Then, we waited.

Ten minutes.



Or so.

Finally, we?d had enough. Mark came back in – without a car! We both were ready to lay down the law, but it was my wife’s turn to share her wrath – so she did. She told him it had been over an hour, and we had seen no car, had no pricing, had no idea what they had, and this was a giant waste of our time. Mark just kind of nodded and then said, ?I understand. Well, listen. I have an 06 Vibe in service that has everything you want except for power windows. We can put them in here though.? That?s what set me off – I don?t want your stinking aftermarket power windows! ?And we can do it for [your ceiling price].?

Me: ?So with tax, title, and license, you can do it for [ceiling]??
Mark: ?Well no, tax, title, license – those are separate.?
Me [to my wife]: ?OK, that?s it.?
My Wife: ?Then we?re going to leave. Thank you.?

But then Mark suggested we look out on the lot at the ?many? Vibes he had. On the lot. Walking. No! We were tired and pissed. Mark was losing his sale. My wife asked, ?Do you have any Vibes?? ?I don?t know.? ?You don?t know? Don?t you have this on a database?? ?I don?t know.? Right, bub. This was the end of it. He also tried to get us into another car, like a G6 (yucko) or a Ford Focus (please).

This wasn?t the end, for he did the whole ?Well I need to tell my manager you?re leaving, blah blah blah? and the Mrs. said, ?We?ll meet you at the front door.? We got over there and waited a minute or two, and Mark came back with another offer – as I was cautiously expecting, given these dealerships we?d visited yesterday.

?I spoke with my manager and he told me that we have the Vibe you wanted.?
Us: ?What??
Mark: ?He told me to sell the car.?
My Wife: ?How can you do that??
Mark: ?Well, the car is here – it can be sold.?
both of us: ?But? you took a deposit on that car. Doesn?t that hold the car??
Mark [befuddled]: ?No. The car is here and she isn?t, so?.?

At this point we were both thinking that there was no way we would WANT to do business with these people! I mean, here they were allegedly selling a car someone ELSE had put a friggin? DEPOSIT on! After that, my wife and I were ready to lay it on the manager. She took her turn this time, and we ended up leaving.

The good news? We went to Jacobs. We bought the car. We drove it home. It wasn’t “impossible”. On the ride home we drove by Grossinger. We both stuck our hands out our respective windows and flipped them off. ?Impossible,? I said. ?Suckers!?

Posted in Cars

FROM: jk
DATE: Thursday October 6, 2005 -- 10:33:40 am
Wow. Sounds just like the VW dealership here. This business of leaving you alone for hours (or at least many many minutes) is to unnerve you. One time, my dad who also did business with this VW/Audi dealership, got so annoyed that he walked into the sales manager's office, took his keys, and walked out. I HATE that they don't respect your time.

You should be able to buy cars at or something like that.

My lease is up in February and it's already looking like it will be next to impossible to get the VW I want!

I am glad you got your car.

FROM: COD [E-Mail]
DATE: Thursday October 6, 2005 -- 11:40:31 am
I did buy our minivan online - through We knew what we wanted, had test driven it and all that, but had failed to get the price to where I wanted. I submitted my info through the Amazon buy a new car link (it goes to some other company) and the next day they called me with an offer that was $2000 less than anything I had been able to negotiate on my own.

I made an appt with the local dealer that had the car, showed up, signed the paperwork, and drove away with my new car. It could not have been easier.

FROM: Paul
DATE: Thursday October 6, 2005 -- 6:34:22 pm
As an addendum - I kid you not - this evening we got a voicemail from Grossinger. It wasn't the guy who helped us, but the original contact for the car - who apparently wasn't told one lick of anything.

FROM: Marcus
DATE: Wednesday October 26, 2005 -- 12:03:24 am
Awhile back when Daewoo was just entering the market (now long-since gone, owned by GM, and many of their products are sold as Chevy's [Aveo in the U.S., various throughout the world] or Suzuki's), there was an original discussion about selling them through the internet. I believe the Federal Government deemed it illegal to do so or something. More of the story, the idea was eventually kicked to the curb and Daewoo began to establish their own dealer network (hefty expense) just like the rest.

I don't understand the in's and out's of how something like that would be illegal when you look at the Auto section on eBay where used vehicles are sold. Granted, I would want to test-drive the vehicle before I purchased (obviously), not to mention do a good once or twice-over of the car up-close... for the amount of $ being spent, even on quite a number of used cars, it's quite the investment to be taking considerable trust in without scrupulously looking over the product you're purchasing. Until you can buy a car over the internet with purchaser's insurance (Paypal-esque) to protect the consumer... and until adequate Lemon laws are implemented coast-to-coast... the whole idea is a bit of a different phenomenon when compared to buying a new Apple or Dell. LoL

I do have to admit some form of middleman site would be nice (Froogle meets Priceline meets Pricegrabber meets Pricewatch). I'm sure the majority of dealerships wouldn't be too keen on it because they'd have to compete via lowballing on each other. It'd be like an eBay auction in reverse... lowest bidder wins your sale. LoL

Hrmmm... come to think of it, I like that idea.


::clicking array of checkboxes in order of preference::

√ 2006 Audi A3 w/DSG & Heated Black Leather in Silver

√ 2006 Volkswagen GLI w/DSG & Heated Leather in Silver.

√ 2006 Volkswagen GTI w/DSG & Heated Black Leather in Silver.

√ 2006 Chevy Cobalt SS Coupe w/Auto in Silver w/ Black Heated Leather w/MP3 and 7-Speaker (Pioneer) upgrade.

√ 2006 Scion tC w/Auto in Silver w/ wheel locks/upgraded wheels.

√ 2006 Honda Civic EX Coupe w/ Auto in Silver

::hits return to find closest dealer w/ any that'd mark down to $19,500::

- - - -

"Error: Request Timed Out"

Grrr... Blasted Comcast!!


FROM: Bianca Beauchamp
DATE: Sunday November 6, 2005 -- 11:53:30 pm
Rent the movie "Fargo" which involves a car salesman who tries to use some illegal scheme to get some money to cover up a screw up and ends up killing a number of people and trying to escape a pregnant police officer by running through a Minnesota winter in undies.

FROM: jessi jacobs
DATE: Saturday December 10, 2005 -- 8:55:53 pm
I liked reading this. My dad owns Jacobs Twin.

Hope everything is good with your car!

: )

FROM: Paul
DATE: Sunday December 11, 2005 -- 8:43:40 am
I liked reading this. My dad owns Jacobs Twin.

Hah! Fantastic!

FROM: Disappointed
DATE: Sunday April 9, 2006 -- 5:55:10 pm
I had an experience at Grossinger last year that was in some ways similar. They kept me and a friend waiting around for long periods of time for no apparent reason. We thought that the salesman was rotating between customers, or that they wanted you to feel like you had invested your time and wouldn't want to leave without fulfilling your purpose of buying a car.

I bought a used '99 Toyota that day. I am more or less happy with the car itself, but Grossinger has never applied for the permanent license plates, and they have never sent me the title, which they may never have had in their possession. In order to renew my temporary plates, I have to drive to the Secretary of State Police office in Villa Park every three months. This is not convenient to me. In addition, it would be impossible for me to sell the car as I do not possess the title. In order to continue receiving temporary plates beyond the first two, I had to file an official compaint against Grossinger with the Secretary Of State Police, and they said that they frequently receive these complaints about Grossinger. They said that it is illegal to sell a vehicle without title, but the judge fines Grossinger a token amount that is just part of their cost of doing business.

I would not do business with Grossinger again under any circumstances.

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